Some Kind of Art School ([info]darkdisney) wrote,
@ 2008-06-18 22:40:00
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..

Well it's about freakin time!

Q. Does the FCX Clarity run on gasoline?
A. No. The FCX Clarity does not use any gasoline whatsoever. It runs on clean, domestically produced hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe.

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[info]malkhos
2008-06-19 02:48 am UTC (link)
The problem is that there are not large depostis of hydrogen laying around like oil. All the hydrogen we use must be made form water. That takes up exactly the same amount of energy buring the hydrogen will generate (actually slightly more since there are mechanical ineffciences involved). So it all depends on where that energy comes from. If it is from wind, or solar, or nuclear, fine; if it is from buring coal, not so good.

There is a similar problem with ethanol. It takes about the same amount of oil to make the fertilizer used to gorwn the corn for ethanol as the ethanol buring car would save. Also fertilizer run-off is about as damaging to the enivorment as fuel emissions.

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 03:03 am UTC (link)
so to summarize if we stay as stupid as we've been this is all for naught but if we smarten up and stay the proper course this could change the world?

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[info]malkhos
2008-06-19 03:11 am UTC (link)
I'm going to hold my breath for any world changing. But this is certainly not the unalloyed good I once hoped it would be.

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 03:13 am UTC (link)
here's my point: NO change at all is very realistic option. I'm happy to see something other than "let's drill for more oil"

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[info]finkenstein
2008-06-19 03:57 am UTC (link)
Yeah I mean it's kind of like recycling, it actually polutes more as it is collecting garbage in trucks and recycling it in plants than it helps to re use things, but I think it's better to be doing it because as the industry of it progresses we may find better more efficient ways to do it and then it will be awesome. Someone has to start up the process that will make the change happen, it may not be totally awesome right at the start but someday it might just be. I'm sure gasoline fumes were blowing out of cars and poluting everything much more when cars were first invented then now, and now we need to evolve even harder. EVOLVING SO HARD!

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 04:03 am UTC (link)

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[info]gymnopedie
2008-06-19 02:52 am UTC (link)
hurray for a car that only a very small percent will be able to afford!

...so no, not about freakin time :(

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 03:01 am UTC (link)
everything starts off that way. chillax

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[info]spracker
2008-06-19 03:42 am UTC (link)
The current hybrids that have been on the market a while, are still very expensive too... :\ (For people with low-modest income/budgets anyway!)

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 03:56 am UTC (link)
i wonder when they'll be phased out!

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[info]spracker
2008-06-19 05:40 am UTC (link)
Good question.. I'm not a fan of the visibility of the Prius, but we rented one this past fall and the gas mileage combined with the electric power really was spectacular. About 500 miles of driving and we barely used a tank of gas... My favorite part was when it lets you know you're using the electric motor vs. gas consumption. We always got so excited when it was running all on electric.

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[info]finkenstein
2008-06-19 04:00 am UTC (link)
yeah but what is a while? Not everyone could afford an automobile for years and years when they were first invented and now we have some crazy new technology and it's going to take a long time for it to be cheap, something has to be first to start it off.

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[info]wewerechampions
2008-06-20 03:09 am UTC (link)
cars have been around for a hundred years already and they're still not affordable for normal people a average 20,000 dollar car costs about 2,000 dollars to make and i understand that these companies have to turn a profit but seriously.

for example, i looked into it and if i wanted to run my home on solar and wind power alone i'd have to spend a years salary just to equip my home to do so.

i just can't for the life of me understand why "going green" has so cost so much money.

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[info]finkenstein
2008-06-19 04:12 am UTC (link)
I am totally behind this car if they are not using fossil fules to run it!
Although...I just read a kind of depressing article that says they might be.
Apparently Bush is funding a plan for Hydrogen cars that takes all the energy from fossil fuels and gasoline and none from solar power or natural gas.
I don't know if that's what this car is doing, but I hope not!
What about the electric car? I am still waiting for it's super come back.

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 04:16 am UTC (link)
i need to dl that movie

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[info]spracker
2008-06-19 05:42 am UTC (link)
Yes, you should! Some amazing technology right there.. I forgot to mention in the Prius blurb, that they have modifications for it to be a plug-in electric, as well as use solar powered energy. If only they were more affordable now to begin with! That'd be too good to be true. ;)

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[info]swandive452
2008-06-19 05:27 am UTC (link)
of course it would take the energy from fossil fuels... how else would he receive a big fat paycheck from such an invention

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[info]radiantthought
2008-06-19 05:21 am UTC (link)
now all we've gotta do is figure out how to safely produce, transport and store an element that is insanely flammable and can evaporate through solid metal.

Seriously though. Hydrogen is just so crazy dangerous it's not funny. Gasoline has to be mixed with a good bit of air before it will explode, hydrogen doesn't really have this problem so much. It just goes BOOM!

The problems with hydrogen are just so large I don't think changing to it (just for change's sake as you implied earlier) is the best idea. I agree, SOMETHING must be done, but I don't think hydrogen is the answer, it's just too dangerous.

My thoughts (since just saying "no that's wrong" without offering my own solution would be stupid) are that more work needs to be done pushing diesel engines and upgrading our infrastructure to handle producing adequate quantities of vegetable (or algae-based) oils as vehicle fuel. Since the things we make the oils out of (plants and alge) are photosynthetic they help reduce the carbon footprint of burning the oils. Not to mention emissions from vehicles run on biodiesel/svo are considerably better than those from petrol diesel. Plus diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline and they aren't so picky about what kinds of fuel go in them. I could go on, but I'm tired as hell, I'm sure someone will have some arguments with this and I'll address those in the morning. Have a good night.

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 04:24 pm UTC (link)
if it IS that dangerous then yes i'll give it a thumbs down. I'm a little skeptical on the idea that they'd allow little hindenburgs on the streets.

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[info]radiantthought
2008-06-19 05:22 pm UTC (link)
well, you've gotta make it relatively safe, the problem is that making it safer comes from using very complex (read: $$$$$$$) systems. Using specialized vacuum containers that help reduce the amount of hydrogen leakage and stuff. But in the end, in a car crash all bets are off. And hydrogen is just SO damned flammable. (literally THE most flammable element) Many metals can also absorb hydrogen which can cause them to become brittle. (see also: not good for car crashes)

So basically, yes, little hindenburgs is sounding like a fairly accurate description.

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 05:32 pm UTC (link)
i like the train

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[info]radiantthought
2008-06-19 05:33 pm UTC (link)
what train might that be?

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 05:40 pm UTC (link)
NY Subway

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[info]radiantthought
2008-06-19 05:43 pm UTC (link)
oh yeah! public mass transportation is the way to go... every single time.

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(Anonymous)
2008-06-21 06:09 am UTC (link)
That's a complete myth.

Google is your friend (http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=482)

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[info]radiantthought
2008-06-21 04:30 pm UTC (link)
That's an interesting link. I'm wondering who funded this research and I'd like to see more about how it was set up. I still have a feeling that it probably was created to make hydrogen look safer. Even if that's not the case, the safety measures it takes to make a vehicle powered by hydrogen SAFE are not cheap, they mentioned high pressure canisters of liquid hydrogen encased in carbon fiber and kevlar (see also:$$$$$). if they're expensive and complicated to make, then repairing them will be expensive and complicated too. Not to mention manufacturing transporting and getting the hydrogen into the cars will be an interesting feat. I want there to be a magic bullet cure, but there isn't one, and if there were, hydrogen isn't it.

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[info]bellahdance
2008-06-19 07:29 am UTC (link)
If I came across even a bit of money - I'd love to make my car one of those ones that run off vegetable oil.

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 03:27 pm UTC (link)
yuck!

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[info]mexicanseafood2
2008-06-19 06:09 pm UTC (link)
What do you mean, "yuck"?!
Those cars are awesome.... and they smell like french fries.

There's a bus that has a route around Worcester that runs on veggie oil.

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[info]bellahdance
2008-06-19 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Free fuel basically, though. Toooooooootally worth it.

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[info]catbot
2008-06-19 12:41 pm UTC (link)
woah! to bad it is ugly as damn!

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 03:28 pm UTC (link)
still better than a Scion!

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[info]catbot
2008-06-19 04:09 pm UTC (link)
the toaster mobile? its not so bad!

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 04:18 pm UTC (link)
I've never seen such a polarizing vehicle you love it or hate it. I think they came out with a commercial that plays on that theme.

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[info]catbot
2008-06-19 04:30 pm UTC (link)
they did! craig has one and i've grown to like it. the new ones they just put out are hideous though.

as far as gas mileage and stuff goes, i'm completely in love with my vespa. 70 MPG!

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[info]darkdisney
2008-06-19 04:33 pm UTC (link)
AMEN! I want a vroom vrooom bike!

That would require actually learning the streets of NY instead of just knowing what stop to get off though heh

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